Comments on: D-Backs Pitching Controversy on the Horizon? Not With This Solution http://phoenix.fanster.com/2008/05/14/d-backs-pitching-controversy-on-the-horizon-not-with-this-solution/ Phoenix, Tucson, Arizona - Sports News, Blogs, Radio, Video, and More Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:50:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Greg Esposito http://phoenix.fanster.com/2008/05/14/d-backs-pitching-controversy-on-the-horizon-not-with-this-solution/#comment-477 Greg Esposito Wed, 14 May 2008 20:12:36 +0000 Max ScherzerWith Doug Davis' return from thyroid cancer slate#comment-477 I agree with the ramifications of sending a position player down. The bench is thin as it is but if Bob Melvin isn't going to utilize a guy like Hammock than why not carry another pitcher he will utilize. I also think a lot of people over value Edgar Gonzalez. He has been given every opportunity to succeed in this organization. He is your typical Quadruple-A player. If Byrnes can find a taker for him now I say go for it. In the end I think you are probably right. The D-Backs will go with a conventional 5 man rotation and will send Scherzer down because of the numbers game. In a perfect world the backs would have all of the starters in the rotation. By the way love <a href="http://nowhitting.com" rel="nofollow">nowhitting.com</a> I agree with the ramifications of sending a position player down. The bench is thin as it is but if Bob Melvin isn’t going to utilize a guy like Hammock than why not carry another pitcher he will utilize. I also think a lot of people over value Edgar Gonzalez. He has been given every opportunity to succeed in this organization. He is your typical Quadruple-A player. If Byrnes can find a taker for him now I say go for it.

In the end I think you are probably right. The D-Backs will go with a conventional 5 man rotation and will send Scherzer down because of the numbers game. In a perfect world the backs would have all of the starters in the rotation.

By the way love nowhitting.com

]]> By: Jeff Summers http://phoenix.fanster.com/2008/05/14/d-backs-pitching-controversy-on-the-horizon-not-with-this-solution/#comment-476 Jeff Summers Wed, 14 May 2008 19:49:29 +0000 Max ScherzerWith Doug Davis' return from thyroid cancer slate#comment-476 Valid points and a great example of thinking outside the box trying to come up with a solution to have too many good pitchers. I am sure there are probably 31 other franchises that would love to be in this situation right now and knock on wood the Diamondbacks have this luxury all of 2008. I did want to respond to Greg's comment about sending down a position player. I think that would be a bad idea. It leaves your bench exposed by minimizing the number of players you have for situational hitting. While I agree Hammock has been used sparingly, having him up has allowed Melvin to pinch hit with Montero or Snyder (whoever is not in the line-up that night) earlier in the game without having to worry about burning his extra backstop. Hammock also provides great depth as he can play pretty much every position and is fast (for a catcher). I'm not sure why the Diamondbacks do not use him more. My confidence in his hitting is slightly higher right now than with Chris Burke (although Burke came through last night with a bloop single to right). You couldn't send Montero down, he is having a very good offensive year even though his stats don't blow you away he is getting timely hits. He also provides a left-handed pinch hitter which the Diamondbacks do need in this division. The other problem with sending down a position player is that you have Chad Tracy currently doing a rehab assignment in Tucson. The Diamondbacks anticipate activating him after he regains some stamina and about 40-50 at bats. By sending Robby Hammock down and keeping Max Scherzer on the roster all you are doing is postponing the inevitable in making a pitching decision in another week or two when Tracy is ready. Valid points and a great example of thinking outside the box trying to come up with a solution to have too many good pitchers. I am sure there are probably 31 other franchises that would love to be in this situation right now and knock on wood the Diamondbacks have this luxury all of 2008.

I did want to respond to Greg’s comment about sending down a position player. I think that would be a bad idea. It leaves your bench exposed by minimizing the number of players you have for situational hitting. While I agree Hammock has been used sparingly, having him up has allowed Melvin to pinch hit with Montero or Snyder (whoever is not in the line-up that night) earlier in the game without having to worry about burning his extra backstop. Hammock also provides great depth as he can play pretty much every position and is fast (for a catcher). I’m not sure why the Diamondbacks do not use him more. My confidence in his hitting is slightly higher right now than with Chris Burke (although Burke came through last night with a bloop single to right). You couldn’t send Montero down, he is having a very good offensive year even though his stats don’t blow you away he is getting timely hits. He also provides a left-handed pinch hitter which the Diamondbacks do need in this division. The other problem with sending down a position player is that you have Chad Tracy currently doing a rehab assignment in Tucson. The Diamondbacks anticipate activating him after he regains some stamina and about 40-50 at bats. By sending Robby Hammock down and keeping Max Scherzer on the roster all you are doing is postponing the inevitable in making a pitching decision in another week or two when Tracy is ready.

]]> By: Greg Esposito http://phoenix.fanster.com/2008/05/14/d-backs-pitching-controversy-on-the-horizon-not-with-this-solution/#comment-473 Greg Esposito Wed, 14 May 2008 19:19:42 +0000 Max ScherzerWith Doug Davis' return from thyroid cancer slate#comment-473 Jeff, I think your point about pitchers being creatures of habit is a good one. Starting pitchers are some of the most superstitious athletes in sports. I do however think that a guys like Owings, Davis and Scherzer could make the adjustment. Owings last year was usually the pitcher who would get skipped in the rotation so he is used to having a strange number of days between starts plus he is still young. Davis has already had about as big of a disruption as a player can have to his routine so it may be an ideal time to try something like this with him. He may also benefit from the extra time to physically recover between starts. Scherzer has said he doesn't care what his routine is, whether it be in the bullpen or starting, that he just wants to pitch. To your point about pitchers being skipped like you said it happens in a 5 man rotation. The benefit is that skipping those starts would help to hold Scherzer under that 140 innings threshold you stated. The guy you send down isn't a pitcher. You send either Hammock or Montero down. There is no need for this team to carry three catchers. Hammock has had only 21 at bats this year. Hardly worth having on the big league roster. Like I said it's a crazy idea. I just think it's worth really thinking through it if you are Josh Byrnes. Jeff,
I think your point about pitchers being creatures of habit is a good one. Starting pitchers are some of the most superstitious athletes in sports. I do however think that a guys like Owings, Davis and Scherzer could make the adjustment.

Owings last year was usually the pitcher who would get skipped in the rotation so he is used to having a strange number of days between starts plus he is still young.

Davis has already had about as big of a disruption as a player can have to his routine so it may be an ideal time to try something like this with him. He may also benefit from the extra time to physically recover between starts.

Scherzer has said he doesn’t care what his routine is, whether it be in the bullpen or starting, that he just wants to pitch.

To your point about pitchers being skipped like you said it happens in a 5 man rotation. The benefit is that skipping those starts would help to hold Scherzer under that 140 innings threshold you stated.

The guy you send down isn’t a pitcher. You send either Hammock or Montero down. There is no need for this team to carry three catchers. Hammock has had only 21 at bats this year. Hardly worth having on the big league roster.

Like I said it’s a crazy idea. I just think it’s worth really thinking through it if you are Josh Byrnes.

]]> By: Matt Blake http://phoenix.fanster.com/2008/05/14/d-backs-pitching-controversy-on-the-horizon-not-with-this-solution/#comment-474 Matt Blake Wed, 14 May 2008 19:15:16 +0000 Max ScherzerWith Doug Davis' return from thyroid cancer slate#comment-474 Jeff, I 100% agree with you. A 6 man rotation was inventive, and could work with 6 mid-teir pitchers. But when you have 2 Aces in the rotation, one of them who is 8-0 and having a hell of a season, you don't want to mess with that. Greg's plan tries to account for that, but man a 6 man rotation seems more messy than anything. And this is a good problem to have too. I'd rather have RJ pitching as the 4-5 starter that he basically is right now. Scherzer going back down to AAA doesn't hurt him and if anyone goes down on the staff, bullpen or starters in the next few days or weeks, you bring him back up. The 6 man rotation just makes my eyes glaze over... Jeff,

I 100% agree with you. A 6 man rotation was inventive, and could work with 6 mid-teir pitchers. But when you have 2 Aces in the rotation, one of them who is 8-0 and having a hell of a season, you don’t want to mess with that. Greg’s plan tries to account for that, but man a 6 man rotation seems more messy than anything. And this is a good problem to have too. I’d rather have RJ pitching as the 4-5 starter that he basically is right now. Scherzer going back down to AAA doesn’t hurt him and if anyone goes down on the staff, bullpen or starters in the next few days or weeks, you bring him back up. The 6 man rotation just makes my eyes glaze over…

]]> By: Jeff Summers http://phoenix.fanster.com/2008/05/14/d-backs-pitching-controversy-on-the-horizon-not-with-this-solution/#comment-475 Jeff Summers Wed, 14 May 2008 18:56:38 +0000 Max ScherzerWith Doug Davis' return from thyroid cancer slate#comment-475 I don't think this will work for a couple of reasons. First off is consistency. Pitchers such as Dan Haren and Brandon Webb are creatures of habit and like to whenever possible stay on a 5-day throwing plan meaning they start every 5 days. Going to a 6-man rotation immediately changes that. If Brandon Webb is 8-0 going things the way they have been do you really want to change his routine? If you come back and say "put Webb and Haren on every 5 days and adjust the other 4" then you will undoubtedly have times where people are skipped (it happens with a 5-man rotation it will happen more often with a 6-man). This again messes with everyone's routine and disrupts how they are accustomed to working and being successful. This is Scherzer's second professional season and as such he is not yet used to the grind of 162-game schedule. With a young arm such as his you need to limit his innings so that he doesn't over-extend himself leading to problems down the road. This year he probably should not pitch more than 140 innings total. There is still a lot of uncertainty about whether Max is better suited to be a starter or closer. By moving him to the bullpen it will allow the team to monitor his progress and see how he does in a variety of situations. Last Sunday was a prime example. If Davis had been back and Scherzer was in the bullpen it would have been Max starting the game in place of Randy so he would still get an occasional start. The question that was not asked in the article was if you don't send Max back to Triple-A, who do you send to Tucson? I was under the impression that the other pitchers were out of options meaning someone would be exposed to the waiver wire. You might like Max Scherzer over Edgar Gonzalez but you don't want to lose Gonzalez to another team with nothing in return and you don't necessarily want to trade him since you would need his arm if Davis doesn't come back well or Randy gets hurt. I think what's best for the organization as a whole is that Max may be sent down but with the understanding that if a roster spot opens up he would be the first one called. I don’t think this will work for a couple of reasons. First off is consistency. Pitchers such as Dan Haren and Brandon Webb are creatures of habit and like to whenever possible stay on a 5-day throwing plan meaning they start every 5 days. Going to a 6-man rotation immediately changes that. If Brandon Webb is 8-0 going things the way they have been do you really want to change his routine? If you come back and say “put Webb and Haren on every 5 days and adjust the other 4″ then you will undoubtedly have times where people are skipped (it happens with a 5-man rotation it will happen more often with a 6-man). This again messes with everyone’s routine and disrupts how they are accustomed to working and being successful. This is Scherzer’s second professional season and as such he is not yet used to the grind of 162-game schedule. With a young arm such as his you need to limit his innings so that he doesn’t over-extend himself leading to problems down the road. This year he probably should not pitch more than 140 innings total. There is still a lot of uncertainty about whether Max is better suited to be a starter or closer. By moving him to the bullpen it will allow the team to monitor his progress and see how he does in a variety of situations. Last Sunday was a prime example. If Davis had been back and Scherzer was in the bullpen it would have been Max starting the game in place of Randy so he would still get an occasional start. The question that was not asked in the article was if you don’t send Max back to Triple-A, who do you send to Tucson? I was under the impression that the other pitchers were out of options meaning someone would be exposed to the waiver wire. You might like Max Scherzer over Edgar Gonzalez but you don’t want to lose Gonzalez to another team with nothing in return and you don’t necessarily want to trade him since you would need his arm if Davis doesn’t come back well or Randy gets hurt. I think what’s best for the organization as a whole is that Max may be sent down but with the understanding that if a roster spot opens up he would be the first one called.

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